Author Topic: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input  (Read 3539 times)

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Offline falcontx

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Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« on: May 06, 2008, 09:54:32 PM »
Mike,

While setting up my PS3IR-PRO with my Logitech Harmony 890, I decided to hide the PS3IR-PRO completely and use my Logitech Wireless Extender to send IR signals to it, rather than putting it out front and trying to aim my remote at it. This works pretty well, but I feel that it could be improved.

As you may know, the Wireless Extender has several 1/8" IR flasher ports that can be used to interface directly with equipment. For example, I have a Marantz SR7002 receiver that has an IR Flasher input on the rear, and I can simply connect the two with a male-to-male 1/8" cable and the Wireless Extender is able to send IR commands directly to the receiver without delay, interference, etc.

If possible, I'd like to do the same thing with the PS3IR-PRO. So, would it be possible for you to configure the expansion port on the PS3IR-PRO to accept IR Flasher signals in this manner? Obviously, I would need to create a 1/8" to RJ11 adapter, but that's no big deal as long as I know the pinout.

Let me know what you think. Thanks!

Offline falcontx

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 10:49:57 PM »
Just thought of something. This is not bidirectional and only requires 2 wires, so the screw terminals could be used, as well, assuming they're capable of output.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 10:52:00 PM by falcontx »

Offline Beerstalker

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2008, 03:34:39 PM »
I have talked to Mike about this on a couple of occasions and he is definitely thinking about it.  Actually he said that once he makes his own custom enclosure he will probably include an IR port in the back to use.  That won't be for a while though as he is busy getting this unit up and running, and can't work on his new enclosure until everything settles down.  I'm waiting for this before I buy.
For help setting up your Harmony remote feel free to send me a PM. 

Include your model of remote, inputs settings for your TV, AV Receiver, etc., and any other setup requests.  I will also need your Harmony Login name and password (I recommend changing your password temporarily to 12345).

Offline falcontx

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2008, 09:20:40 PM »
Well, it's good to know that he's considering it. I think there are potentially a large number of people who could benefit from something like this, as I know some installers who use IR connecting blocks/switchers, etc.

The built-in port would be nice, but it's really no big deal to make an adapter for one of the existing expansion ports.

Offline dinom

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2008, 07:37:22 AM »
I don't understand, I thought the PRO already had a hardwired IR input?  From the description page:

• Removable screw terminal block for wiring up hardwired IR commands (such as “IR Blaster”)

Basically, you just cut the end off your mono 3.5mm cable and screw the wires into this terminal.  I believe you need to strip the carrier off of the Sony codes to make this work.  I use an RTI control system (which allows me to set carrier to 0 KHz), so will try this when I get it.  I'm not sure Harmony can do this, however.

Dino

Offline falcontx

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2008, 10:54:36 AM »
Wow. How did I miss that?

I'll give it a shot as soon as I get a chance and report back.

Offline MMuecke

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2008, 08:43:35 PM »
Wow. How did I miss that?

I'll give it a shot as soon as I get a chance and report back.

Whoa! Be advised that this input is expecting normally high logic. So the bits would be low going. From what I understand now, the common data format output is normally low since it is meant to drive an IR emitter. So, unless you invert the signal with a transistor, it probably won't work as is. In the future I will invert the signal in my device. If it is important, I can modify the firmware to make it work and make it available for download. The other thing is, I'm expecting a non-modulated signal. In other words, just the bit stream. I haven't had enough input from anyone to know what is needed so I just guessed (wrong).

I'd like some feedback on what is really needed. I can make it happen.

Offline falcontx

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2008, 09:30:00 PM »
Whoa! Be advised that this input is expecting normally high logic. So the bits would be low going. From what I understand now, the common data format output is normally low since it is meant to drive an IR emitter. So, unless you invert the signal with a transistor, it probably won't work as is. In the future I will invert the signal in my device. If it is important, I can modify the firmware to make it work and make it available for download. The other thing is, I'm expecting a non-modulated signal. In other words, just the bit stream. I haven't had enough input from anyone to know what is needed so I just guessed (wrong).

I'd like some feedback on what is really needed. I can make it happen.

Well, I haven't had a chance to try it, yet, but from the sound of things, it will not work. The Logitech Wireless Extender will indeed directly power an IR emitter, so it seems that your input would need to be able to accept normally low, modulated signals.

If you can provide me with a copy of the firmware that allows this port to work in this manner, I'd be happy to test it.

Offline db3l

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2008, 11:37:30 PM »
Whoa! Be advised that this input is expecting normally high logic. So the bits would be low going. From what I understand now, the common data format output is normally low since it is meant to drive an IR emitter. So, unless you invert the signal with a transistor, it probably won't work as is. In the future I will invert the signal in my device. If it is important, I can modify the firmware to make it work and make it available for download. The other thing is, I'm expecting a non-modulated signal. In other words, just the bit stream. I haven't had enough input from anyone to know what is needed so I just guessed (wrong).

I'd like some feedback on what is really needed. I can make it happen.

Ah, ignore my question on the other thread, as I hadn't seen this yet. 

Yes, for me (Crestron), the IR ports put out a normally low signal.  It's a 0-5V output with 5V for a 1 bit, either modulated at a frequency to drive an IR emitter, or pure voltage levels for non-modulated output/1-way serial output.  I'm still poking around, but haven't found a mechanism to invert those voltage levels (sans some external circuitry).

There are some digital output ports I could use to generate a normally high signal, but they aren't designed to run off of the ir module definitions, so would be more work than I probably want to invest.

I'm not sure how crucial it is since the IR path certainly works, but I was interested in using the hardwired link in my environment, so if there was some way to invert the logic on your side, I still think it would be interesting.

-- David

Offline MMuecke

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2008, 09:17:42 AM »
If you can provide me with a copy of the firmware that allows this port to work in this manner, I'd be happy to test it.

I will purchase one of the Harmony remotes with the RF capability and test it out Today. I'll post the new firmware when I get it working.

Offline falcontx

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2008, 11:29:14 AM »
I will purchase one of the Harmony remotes with the RF capability and test it out Today. I'll post the new firmware when I get it working.

Good deal. I think if you can get it working with the Logitech Wireless Extender, it will also work with any of the more high end systems (Crestron, RTI, Xantech, etc), as they are all capable of directly driving an IR emitter.

Offline dinom

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2008, 12:17:36 PM »
I could be wrong, but I don't think Harmony supports unmodulated output on the hardwired ports.  RTI does (I know because I've done it to wire directly to Sony Control-S) and I'm sure Crestron does.

By the way, the more common method today for components is to accept the modulated signal, basically exactly what would be used to drive an emitter.  My Onkyo receiver works this way.  If Mike could get that working on the PRO (not sure if there are hardware limitations or not) that would make the most sense.  And it would make the hardwired input compatible with more control systems.

Dino

Offline falcontx

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2008, 12:20:42 PM »
Dino,

You are correct. You basically reiterated what I said in my last couple of posts.

Offline MMuecke

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2008, 03:44:13 PM »
Working on it!

Offline falcontx

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2008, 01:13:03 AM »
Any updates on this?

Offline MMuecke

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2008, 02:02:10 PM »
I finally have some time this week to look into it.

Offline MMuecke

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2008, 10:49:53 AM »
Any updates on this?

I am testing the solution here in the lab. It looks like a simple external circuit will work. Then I will add this circuit to my next layout. I have armarked more time for R&D in the next few weeks to get all of this resolved and working perfectly. Until recently I have been swamped with production tasks so the development has been slower than I would like.

Offline falcontx

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2008, 12:53:43 AM »
Mike,

Any updates on the hardwired flasher capability? Can you provide the schematics for the external circuit you made reference to?

Offline MMuecke

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2008, 04:07:54 PM »
Sorry, I admit I have been distracted by other development tasks. The external circuit woyld be an NPN transistor driven through an RC circuit that filters out the 38KHz modulation and the output going to the PRO. I can pull the signal up internally with the microprocessor.

Offline glackowitz

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Re: Suggestion for Expansion Port: IR Flasher Input
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2008, 10:38:39 PM »
Mike, Whats involved in using the rear Phoenix connector??

Is it just removing the 38Khz frequency?? I use RTI remotes and have stripped the 38000 freq to 0 for use on Sony devices, is this whats needed to get the rear IR to work??

Right now we are opening the units and placing emitters inside(keeps medling hands from pulling it off the front)

I would love to use the rear connector
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